if you don't have the government as a player to do things the government can do well, then you are basically forfeiting the race to other countries that are very aggressively partnering. so if you have a cluster that has both the university as a partner as well as foundations as a partner, the government, and certainly the private sector leading the way, why wouldn't you do that if it means jobs for your state? >> four and a half years ago, five years ago america got into a recession that you and michigan were very familiar with. >> we were in front of it. >> so you want to invest in people. you call it infrastructure, but it's human resources of people. you want to build a work force that is competitive internationally, and one of the things you write is we should learn from germany and subsidize employment rather than unemployment. what is it about the german model you're interested in? >> in tough economic times when things are slow, especially in this manufacturing sector, instead of showing full layoffs, the person takes a part-time salary in this country, but their salary is sected by